One day ago, the statistics were looking good but there have been a few ominous shifts. Another 26 infections have been recorded, some in a French ski chalet, some in Singapore —at least three of which are hard to explain. These appear to be transmissions outside China, which is what we are hoping to avoid. It’s bad, but could have been a lot worse. Fortunately the Diamond Princess tally hasn’t risen much — standing at 64. Another plus — it’s almost two weeks since one passenger on a Tiger Air flight in Australia flew as he was coming down with symptoms yet the other 157 passengers appear to be OK. Promising.
…
Just 2% of cases so far are severe outside China (but that may grow)
The all important statistics outside of China are starting to accrue — So far there are 355 infections. Of those, 35 have recovered and only eight are marked as severe (see the table below). It’s good news that only 2% are severe, however it’s too soon to know — 90% are still unwell.
The illness appears to be less severe outside China, but a new study reports that this virus often looks benign to start with. It begins with a mix of mild symptoms that can look like the common cold, or resemble gastro. But some patients go on to develop breathing trouble five days later, and may need the ICU (Intensive Care Unit) by day 8. Sometimes people get released from medical care, but then have to return the next week. So not only must we wait 14 days for the incubation period, there may be another 8 days (or more) before we know how many will need emergency life support and we can begin to calculate the fatality rate. Unfortunately that means there may be a sting in this tail coming. We can’t take too much comfort in all the early reports of mild effects. Though we hope that the outcome in the West will be different due to a better resourced medical system that is not overwhelmed with an unmanageable case load, and other local factors.
New Report on 138 Coronavirus Cases Reveals Disturbing Details
New York Times
Reporting on Friday in JAMA, the authors said their data suggested that rapid person-to-person spread of the virus had occurred among their cases. That was in part because of patients like the one admitted to the surgical department, whose symptoms misled doctors into suspecting other illnesses and failing to take precautions to prevent spread of the virus until it was too late.
About 10 percent of the patients did not initially have the usual symptoms, cough and fever, but instead had diarrhea and nausea first. Other uncommon symptoms included headache, dizziness and abdominal pain.
Another cause for concern was that some patients who at first appeared mildly or moderately ill then took a turn for the worse several days or even a week into their illness. The median time from their first symptoms to when they became short of breath was five days; to hospitalization, seven days; and to severe breathing trouble, eight days.
For this series of patients, the death rate was 4.3 percent.
China’s National Health Commission has given the virus a temporary official name – novel coronavirus pneumonia, or NCP. — South China Morning Post
In other news, it’s been confirmed CoronaVirus can spread via aerosol — like Influenza. That makes it easier to spread that just via contact, or respiratory droplet, though these are still described as the main routes. Protection from this means well fitted respiratory masks, 6 feet spacing between people, increasing ventilation and air flow, negative pressure rooms, and also goggles to protect eyes. It means cancelling large events in at risk populations for the moment. See the CDC recommendations.
Something truly awful is going on in China. Dip into #coronavirus
People are being chased down the road by “medical teams”, dragged forcibly into quarantine. A woman in an apartment tower yells for help, “my husband is dying. There is no way out”. Officials carry guns, and there are frightening videos of them welding doors shut and locking people inside their homes. But I can’t find footage of deliveries of food and medicine to trapped citizens. This is not what people do in “a flu season”, they’re acting like it’s the plague.
There are reports, allegedly from within Wuhan hospitals that hundreds of patients a day are being classified as “pnumonic”, not as coronavirus. “Daily removes pnumonic patients to not return, whole sections of hospital, 200 rooms each and not recorded. They are filled immediately with new pnumonic. Please know we are trying but there is simply too much…. would post more photo but other workers here and typing this under table…”
There are movies displayed below. If you can’t see them, try another browser.
This behaviour of the ccp was expected!
Locking people inside their homes!!CoronaVirus can spread via aerosol.
No surprises here It can also be spread by contact and by respiratory droplet. What does this mean? It’s hard to stop.
—————————-
China is now literally chaining families inside their homes and barring up their windows so they are unable to leave. #coronavirus pic.twitter.com/iQSmHOw3f0
— युव अनुज (Anuj Jain) (@_Jaabee) February 9, 2020
———— Sulphur dioxide emissions are highest from the two worst affected cities in China.
“Sulfur dioxide gas in Wuhan, commonly associated with the burning of organic matters”. What are they burning? #coronavirus https://t.co/H37B5hqHSH — Max Howroute▫️ (@howroute) February 9, 2020
————
More craziness from the quarantine zone in China. #coronavirus pic.twitter.com/QNWZGooZ8a
— Max Howroute▫️ (@howroute) February 9, 2020
————
Residents are welded inside their apartment blocks and left to die. #CoronaVirus.pic.twitter.com/XZrRoeDAVh — CoronaVirus Breaking News (@NCOVNEWS) February 9, 2020
—
The sprinkle battalion is back on the streets of Wuhan, China. Night after night and more trucks than ever before. #coronavirus pic.twitter.com/NedT55hxSQ
— Max Howroute▫️ (@howroute) February 8, 2020
————
For a lighter moment, see one resident singing from a balcony doing his own concert for other people waving torches. He’s wearing the US flag. Is this China’s free speech revolution? See others wearing full-body inflatable cartoon characters as a way of protecting themselves against viruses. Comic but tragic.
Concert from a balcony
————-
If I were ruler of the world I’d be closing borders and sitting tight for a few weeks
We’ll know so much more then. The cost of quarantine is enormous, but the cost of getting this wrong will be counted in “millions” — and that’s not dollars. If we wait to find out how serious this is, it could be too late to stop it. The recent UK / France outbreak has come via Singapore, so we know there is a risk from even well managed nations which are taking precautions. After a few weeks, borders can be opened again on a case by case basis with “clean nations”. This means people can confidently organize tours, conferences, holidays and weddings without fear of them being cancelled at short notice. A mandatory two week quarantine would be essential with nations that had outbreaks.
—————————
The Coronavirus and The Flu are not the same
Wired Magazine pushes back against the trite comparisons with the flu.
There are as many as 5 million severe cases of flu worldwide each year, and 650,000 deaths…
Call it “viral whataboutism.” … this mutant form of rhetoric has come into discussions of what could be a massive epidemiological threat. Is the new coronavirus something to worry about? Yeah, sure, but so’s the flu… and you don’t seem to care too much about that!
For goodness’ sake, stop. Yes, we know the flu is bad—no one likes the flu. But the gambit of positioning the influenza virus as the scarier of two foes is as dangerous as it is hackneyed.
…these whatabout statistics aren’t really meant to sharpen our vigilance around the flu, or even to encourage us toward higher rates of vaccination. They’re just supposed to calm us down…
Millions get the virus every year, and fewer than 0.1 percent of them perish from it. What’s the rate of death from the new coronavirus? No one can say for certain, but estimates have hovered at around 20 times the rate for influenza, or 2 percent.
The statistics Sunday — thanks to Worldometer.
The Diamond Princess tally is included in the Japanese numbers.
| Country, | Total Cases | Feb-08 | Total | Total | Total | Region | |
| Territory | Cases | Deaths | Deaths | Recovered | Severe | ||
| China | 37,198 | 2,652 | 811 | 2,693 | 6,188 | Asia | |
| Japan | 90 | 4 | 4 | Asia | |||
| Singapore | 40 | 7 | 2 | 4 | Asia | ||
| Thailand | 32 | 7 | 10 | 1 | Asia | ||
| Hong Kong | 26 | 1 | Asia | ||||
| S. Korea | 25 | 1 | 2 | Asia | |||
| Taiwan | 17 | 1 | 1 | Asia | |||
| Malaysia | 16 | 1 | 1 | Asia | |||
| Australia | 15 | 5 | Oceania | ||||
| Germany | 14 | Europe | |||||
| Vietnam | 13 | 3 | Asia | ||||
| USA | 12 | 3 | N.America | ||||
| France | 11 | 5 | 1 | Europe | |||
| Macao | 10 | 1 | Asia | ||||
| U.A.E. | 7 | Asia | |||||
| Canada | 7 | N.America | |||||
| U.K. | 3 | Europe | |||||
| Philippines | 3 | 1 | Asia | ||||
| Italy | 3 | 2 | Europe | ||||
| India | 3 | Asia | |||||
| Russia | 2 | Europe | |||||
| Sweden | 1 | Europe | |||||
| Sri Lanka | 1 | 1 | Asia | ||||
| Spain | 1 | Europe | |||||
| Nepal | 1 | Asia | |||||
| Finland | 1 | 1 | Europe | ||||
| Cambodia | 1 | 1 | Asia | ||||
| Belgium | 1 | Europe | |||||
| Total outside China | 355 | 26 | 35 | 8 | 0 |
So it’s still too early to call it a pandemic. Let’s hope it stays that way.
151
“A pandemic is an epidemic of disease that has spread across a large region; for instance multiple continents, or even worldwide.” –Wankerpedia
01
An epidemic refers to an increase, often sudden, in the number of cases of a disease above what is normally expected in that population in that area. So we could consider the corona virus and epidemic within China especially if the real numbers are much higher than they are letting us know, but as yet we have not seen correspondingly large numbers of infections and deaths all around the word, at least not yet. Far more people around the world are infected with and dying from influenza but it’s not considered a pandemic. However, there have been many times in history where the world suffered a flu pandemic where millions died. The point is unless we see a massive increase of infections and deaths around the world, it’s not yet a pandemic.
10
With regard to SO2, is there a time series? Could be that Wuhan has some particularly dirty industry?
Also rather than a free speech revolution, it would not surprise me if this is a convenient opportunity for the CCP to “disappear” a bunch of people.
180
‘convenient opportunity for the CCP to “disappear” a bunch of people.’
Oh so true.
90
Interesting speculation but if you are to believe that don’t exclude the possibility it can happen in other countries, even in the US.
47
Arkincide is already rampant in the USA, apparently.
https://lenbilen.com/2016/07/19/arkancide-or-clintoncide-a-list-of-casualties-a-limerick/
00
They’re running the crematoriums 24 hours a day and not able to keep up with the bodies. But would the crematoriums release sulfur dioxide?
Otherwise they’ve been fumigating the roads too with lines of trucks, would that be the cause?
81
The “official” SO2 level in the air in Wujiashan (a suburb of Wuhan) over the past 48 hours is around 2-3 micrograms / m3
https://aqicn.org/city/wuhan/wujiashan/
For reference the SO2 level in the air in Box Hill (a suburb of Melbourne with no heavy industry close by) over the past 48 hours is around 2-10 micrograms / m3
http://aqicn.org/city/australia/melbourne/box-hill/
50
Just to be clear, the image in this article has the SO2 level being 1351.65 micrograms / m3
70
Area levels over 600 occur regularly. I’ve seen levels around Wuhan go past 3,000 many times. Some of the point source levels can go over 12,000.
30
Such high levels are short term, very localized and dissipate over a small area. The map shows a widespread bloom from that central point suggesting sustained burning of biomass which should appear in the 48 hour record. And this in a city where commercial and industrial activity has been shut down.
70
Here is another site with longer term AQ records.
You can see that over the last month, the highest record SO2 reading for Wuhan was 11.2 micrograms / m3 back on the 20th of January (scoll about halfway down to the “Wuhan air pollution historical data” section, then select “Daily” and ‘SO2″)
https://www.airvisual.com/china/hubei/wuhan
20
Perhaps they’re burning sulphur as a disinfectant? It’s common in agricultural areas because it’s cheap and it works.
40
NCL (Norwegian Cruise Lines) has joined RCL in tightening their boarding rules:
https://www.ncl.com/au/en/travel-alert/coronavirus
Princess Cruises released a video a few hours ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbFpEuTaZRE
60
I wouldn’t be caught dead on a cruise right now.
Cruise lines should STOP .. all .. their cruises for now.
It shouldn’t take an Einstein to figure that out. Sure, it will hurt their revenue, but not as much as all the nightmare stories of future cruise quarantines would, which would bankrupt them.
40
I suspect that no one will be booking for a while on any cruise ships !
50
Cunard diverted the Queen Mary 2 to Fremantle – will arrive on 18 Feb, departs 19 Feb, in order to avoid the Asian itinerary it was originally scheduled to travel:
https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/health/coronavirus-crisis-cunard-cruise-ship-queen-mary-2-to-divert-to-fremantle-over-coronavirus-concerns-ng-b881458017z
Incidentally, Dr. John Campbell is doing some good videos explaining the corona virus:
https://www.youtube.com/user/Campbellteaching/videos
10
Well given the CCPs approach to human rights, welding people inside an apartment block doesnt surprise me at all.
I think the CCP would be doubly concerned after in effect anti-communism riots Hong Kong, and how much it would have damaged the govts credibility and severe loss of face, they would be throwing everything at this problem so as to look in control, as if this goes wrong it is entirely possible that normal chinese could oust the communist party from power….
Now imagine the loss of capital any any jail tome that may happen with a pro-democracy revolution in china.
While it appears to be a virus thats heavily infectious, its yet to be seen if its truly dangerous, as its entirely possible a lot of deaths could be elderly and/or with underlying medical conditions that cause death.
The other concern is if countries invoke emergency powers, what else could done under the cover of such powers? We need to be vigilant to abuse of power even here.
Interesting times…
100
I’m not a fan of conspiracy theories but I have to admit this could be taken up the various governments, not just in China as an exercise in determining the most effective ways to control the masses when we have a real crisis, assuming this one isn’t.
110
These arent conspiracy theories…id suggest they are very real possibilities given that it appears the chinese seem to be in damage control mode.
60
Damage control of what? I consider their actions as normal. Perhaps some consider the way they are acting as draconian but I struggle to see how else any nation would behave differently under similar circumstances. Of course we don’t know what else they are doing and that’s where one enters the realm of conspiracy theories.
94
You are being an apologist Peter !
🙁
54
Perhaps. I consider myself as a realist with critical thinking skills. I look at the available evidence and apply Occam’s razor in combination with common sense and logic. It tends to keep speculation to a minimum and avoids falling into the common trap of conspiracy theories of which there are so many and often contradictory. Time eventually solves some of the mysteries.
91
Don’t you feel we’re sitting ducks for whatever China wants to do?
The greater the penetration of the Left into Australian orgs and institutions…Australian life in general… …the more precarious Australia becomes on every front .
How stupid is post-modern post-normal post-Long March of the LEFT Through the Institutions–PC-to-the-death Australia…how will we ever defend our country if China decides it will have it….especially after Turnbull’s Transition succeeds in making Australia 3rd world poor and insecure in every way.
Guardian published this in 2017…
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/jun/03/csiro-cooperation-with-chinese-defence-contractor-should-raise-questions
[ .. the first partnership between CETC and ‘CSIRO began in 2007 when the two reached a deal to commercialise CSIRO’s wireless technologies in China.
The CSIRO is not involved with CETC’s No 38 or No 14 Research Institutes, rather it appears they have been working with CETC’s No 54 Research Institute.
CETC 54 is heavily involved in military application research in telecommunications, underwater acoustic sensors, satellite tracking, jamming military communications, intelligence and reconnaissance and unmanned systems.
Patents and conference papers also indicate research into swarming UAVs (drones) and communication redundancies in the event of “enemy anti-satellite attacks”.’ ]
Looks like nothing was done about that…does anyone know….and now this today in The Australian….
[ ‘Strategic experts have expressed alarm at a CSIRO partnership with a top Chinese marine science institute that undertakes military-related research, including the ¬development of a satellite-based laser to detect foreign submarines.
The Centre for Southern Hemisphere Oceans Research is a joint project between the CSIRO and China’s Qingdao National Laboratory for Marine Science and Technology to better understand ocean temperatures and currents, and the role they play in climate change.
It is headed by CSIRO chief ¬research scientist Cai Wenju, who is also a professor at the Qingdao laboratory, which leads China’s “Transparent Ocean” initiative.’ ]
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/security-experts-warn-of-military-threat-from-chinese-marine-project/news-story/899f23a52bc719978de4d6f90a37793b
We should scrap the French deal NOW-buy only American subs …and try to ensure some Chinese Communist official isn’t running the whole building program or strategic sections thereof.
And we need to ask ourselves …..how can we trust all these Marxist academics infesting our institutions…to prioritize Australia’s survival as a sovereign democracy over their own Holy Grail of Global Socialism?
112
Yes of course we are sicking ducks. We allowed it to happen because we have gone too soft and allowed them to buy up so much of our land and businesses. We need the money but I prefer we had gone the other way and avoided them like the plague (no pun intended). They are a ruthless dictatorship and dealing with them would be like dealing the same way with Hitler prior to WW2. Look how they are treating anyone who dares criticises their way. Their record on human rights abuse is appalling. It all comes down to standing up to ones own principles. We haven’t.
70
Truth asks:
Short answer: we can’t trust them.
Their loyalty is to their ideology.
50
Oh BTW I am a Christian so that certainly makes me an apologist. I’ve also been called an evangelist by some Christians I’ve debated with who IMHO followed false doctrines. I laughed and said thank you for the compliment.
30
Reputation primarily. First HK and now this. There is huge money at stake and a major blow to the economy. Not sure why people cant see that. Humans seem to be secondary consideration to the communist party…..
91
Gotcha. China hates losing face. It’s one aspect of their culture that could be their downfall (again).
60
Of the State’s initial coverup/denial of the virus at all, let alone the potential threat.
70
Wuhan by all accounts had poor air quality (heavily polluted).
The general population were not that well fed, and likely to suffer illness from colder weather.
The medical system wasn’t that effective, or available to the poorer classes.
The local officials tried to ignore the early outbreak, possibly thinking that it was just influenza.
Coupled that with the paranoia of the ruling Party it seems (to me) that initial ignoring of the outbreak led to public annoyance, which led to sudden drastic over reaction (hence locking people inside their residence, banning movement, building hospitals in 4 days etc.).
With 5 million getting outside Wuhan to other parts of China (Lunar New Year holidays etc.) if the virus was so infectious then we would be hearing tales of deaths all over China (assuming that the news was released).
The recovery rate among sufferers outside China seems very high, possibly because of improved health care and also that those who travel overseas are likely to be more affluent hence better nutition and better health.
This won’t stop the media esp. the ABC claiming that we are all doomed because of climatechange and the policies of the PM.
160
Good points, but who can trust the statistics out of China?
The canaries in the cage are on the Diamond Princess. If the virus is easily spead by aerosol, I wonder if they have done anything with the airconditioning system? Also I wonder why they would remain at the dock instead of at sea, so they can vent without fear?
If high temperature and high humidity can destroy the virus, they may be able to set the air treatment accordingly. The could use positive ventilation where new air is input continually instead of recirculated air? That may be why they left the harbour, not to get water.
Most importantly, the rate of additional infection should drop, not go up. If it drops, the virus is being eliminated, not passed to others. Later studies will reveal a great deal from studying exactly what has been done but as each day passes, the likelihood is that the virus will burn out on the boat.
What is most puzzling is the reaction of all the world’s authorities. It’s as if they know something no one else knows and they are trying to prevent panic. This is being treated as comparable to ebola. There has never been a cooridinated international movement to eliminate a single virus before and trace every single person. We can only hope it works.
200
“In the days since, it has become a fixture in Yokohama’s harbor, making a slow circuit toward shore for supplies and then back out to sea for quarantine.”
Sure it requires a lot more heating to use and heat cold fresh air, but what else matters? The ship is going nowhere. I hope positive fresh air ventilation is an option for the whole ship, as it is in a car. If so, the ship is preferable to most buildings.
120
“What is most puzzling is the reaction of all the world’s authorities. It’s as if they know something no one else knows and they are trying to prevent panic.”
That struck me too. But it may just LOOK that way.
60
Yes that’s the way I look at the whole issue. Perhaps they are hiding some critical aspect about the breakout. We just don’t know. So what’s the point of speculating? If they are hiding something then one could argue they are doing so to avoid a panic and they are trying as hard as possible to stop it but not go too hard to make it obvious. Perhaps the nations are monitoring the situation and co-operating to see what they need to do next and if necessary apply more drastic actions everywhere. This is all speculation upon speculation. All we can do is wait and see how all this pans out. We simply do not know what is happening behind the scene, and possibly we will never know.
I also find it ironic how so many are hinting this is a pandemic yet the evidence thus far is it’s no where near being one. It’s much like the hysteria by the global warming alarmists. If and when the virus does lead to millions of deaths all around the world then we can call it a pandemic. Meanwhile let’s hope enough is being done to prevent one.
62
PeterS:
to put this is context in 2017 (a bad ‘flu year) 1255 people died in Australia
In 2018 ( a light ‘flu season) the figure was 125 deaths
In the 2018/19 ‘flu season in the USA the death toll was 61,200
So IF this is equivalent to a low mortality type ‘flu there could be 8,700 deaths in Wuhan and 235,600 in China (0.17% of the population).
But IF this is equivalent to a high mortality type ‘flu there could be 87,000 deaths in Wuhan and 2,356,000 in China (1.75% of the population).
It seems that the Corona virus, being new, is of the severe type and might explain the drastic actions of the Chinese government.
61
Comparisons to the flu are pointless since quarantines (and other harsh measures) are not imposed for the flu.
10
PeterS, why would the CCP massively disrupt their economy with widespread, mass lockdowns of their population (and hence workers) of the virus was as mild as suggested by their official figures for infection and mortality? They were already struggling to keep the momentum of growth in their economy prior to the outbreak, then they delayed recogition that there was an outbreak of a new virus at all.
So why should we have complete faith in their figures?
90
As I pointed out before their actions are likely to avoid losing face, which is a large part of Chinese culture. It’s also to avoid a panic, which in itself will only make matters worse.
41
Losing face over what? Panic over what?
You keep stating that the outbreak appears to be mild (from the official figures) so why would they lose face over this or have mass panic?
22
You clearly don’t understand Chinese culture. I do as I have many Chinese friends who explain most to fit.
I keep stating the outbreak is mild because it clearly is. The number of deaths so far outside of China is trivial. I’m not saying it can’t explode to a full pandemic. Only time will tell whether it does or not. I also pointed out in another thread we have far greater issues with the potential of an outbreak of a new bird flu and a new swine flu. If they enter the population it will be a much bigger concern.
30
I am Chinese
20
And having their economy crash would cause far more loss of face and quite possibly incite mass civil unrest more than a “trivial” viral outbreak.
The prospect of wealth beyond that of a peasant farmer has been the unspoken trade for continued non-representative government and the shutdown threatens to undermine this far more than a mild disease. With the slowdown of the global economy and the inflation pressures brought on by the swine and avian flu outbreaks, the very last thing the Chinese government would want is to shutdown commerce and industry and restrict travel.
Unless you think the shutdowns are to provide an excuse for the economy crashing because they can no longer provide enough stimulus to cover the slowdown in growth – that’s really tinfoil hat area.
30
“We just don’t know. So what’s the point of speculating?”
It’s natural and reasonable to try to figure things out when knowledge is incomplete and especially when it appears that knowledge is being withheld from us. As long is speculation does not claim to be knowledge, it’s OK.
60
Fair enough.
20
The question is: how do you read the figures?
811 deaths in China
2,693 recoveries in China.
Death as a percentage of recoveries doesn’t look promising at 30%.
One death outside China
35 recoveries outside China.
Death as a percentage of recoveries in looking better but 3% is early days.
20
811 deaths and 2,693 recoveries in China but the number infected is much higher so the official death rate is somewhere in the region of 3% or so but could go higher depending on what happens to the rest of the infected cases. We have to wait and see.
10
I suggest it will be more accurate
If we total deaths & recoveries
811 + 2693 = 3504 total infected ~ 4 weeks earlier
And then divide that total by deaths
That gives a death rate of 23.14% !
Of course these figures are just what the Chinese government is releasing.
The amount of awful details leaking out via social media etc from China
Make the official figures very doubtful.
And this suspician is reinforced by the extent of the government’s reaction to the crisis.
10
There are many more who are infected who haven’t as yet died or recovered. You can’t exclude them. If they all survived then the death rate is low. If they all died then the death rate would be horrific. The reality is it will be somewhere in between. We simply do not known yet until those infected have either recovered or died. Yes the Chinese possibly are not telling us the truth but the overseas figures so far look very promising. We need to wait and see how it pans out.
20
This interview is with the man who drafted the U.S. legislation for the biological weapons convention which came to be known as The Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act of 1989, and was signed into law by President Bush.
https://silverfarm.podbean.com/e/francis-boyle-coronavirus-is-an-offensive-biological-warfare-weapon/
12
Seen a program on faceache which I can’t no longer find I only watched the start but it looked like an American type estimate committee who were talking massive numbers of deaths in china .
Thought it might have been fake news but now not so sure , might try to dig it up again .
31
Facebook post has been removed for whatever reason but when looking there was a claim the virus can live for nine days outside of the body .
50
That’s probably the other reason for all the bleach fogging. Here’s another video of them doing it.
https://imgur.com/gallery/nfNCBfi
They have little “power fogger” trolleys for the smaller streets where the big trucks can’t get into.
80
Until nations impose quarantine restrictions comparable to live non-human animals (thing cats, dogs, fish, cows, etc.) entering their nation, the current practices of symptom detection is mostly a feel good exercise.
Maybe, just maybe, current “screening” for symptoms might, just might, control the relatively hard to contract Ebola virus but even then, there have been a few cases of quarantined individuals passing it along.
The hysteria is likely a good thing (folks may even wash more, for example) but to believe a highly contagious a-i-r-b-o-r-n-e virus could be contained with current methods? Really?
Run this through the computers: Incubation period of two weeks before symptoms. Daily flights to major airports. Multiple daily flights to and from hubs. Infection rate of about 30% (comparable to the 1918 flu). The virus is “active” and circulation at each airport within 24 h-o-u-r-s after arriving. Oh, and how many are “exposed”?
By the time governments react to impose quarantine, the grim reaper has honed it’s scythe and has set about the harvest.
140
I have read this post and others over the past few days with increasing sadness.
A cultured and civilised nation is being treated I feel with disdain while it is in a major health emergency.
It’s own government seems to be acting on the assumption that people do not matter
It’s OK to lock suspected ill people up in their own buildings and apartments .
It’s OK to cremate bodies without honest records being kept for family.
It’s OK to send the sick home to die, from hospitals as supplies get & medical get stretched.
Clearly this CCP government has lost the plot with this major medical emergency happening
We have now rescued our own citizens there in Wuhan.
Surely it is time for other nations ( including Australia ) to offer help.
Medical supplies would surely help.
Assistance with medical research into this new disease would be worthwhile as well
And maybe there are medical & par medical people
Who are willing to take the plunge & go to China to care for the sick there ?
70
The Chinese have been rejecting offers of help and are keeping the world in the dark (unless there are high level secret briefings going on) as to the methods they are using, the reasons for those methods and the level of success or failure.
We will need to make our own decisions on the basis of whatever happens to those sufferers now under our control and supervision.
China is a lost cause due to its political nature.
160
So is the West for same reason.
54
You could go and live in China or another nation that is politically similar.
25
No thanks, jumping out of the frying pan into the fire is not the way to go. I’m going upwards. 🙂
30
THIS is what the demented left and those who vote for them would have the rest of the world to become. May they be condemned to the hell they want us to experience: trapped in a sealed apartment building with the dead and dying with no escape. Yet stay endlessly alive.
92
“Wuhan has 49 crematoriums,
Which can each burn 5 bodies every two hours.
They’ve been working 24 hours a day for 17 days now.
49 x 17 x 24 x 5/2 = 49,980 bodies. ”
https://twitter.com/anilvohra69/status/1226321939297267714?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1226397265511768064&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fchiefio.wordpress.com%2F2020%2F02%2F06%2F6-feb-2019-ncov-corona-virus-outbreak%2F
80
Thanks for posting the latest news on this, Jo. Keep on doing so.
60
Please have a look at this (link) what it reveals is
the virus is an escapee from a lab in China.
https://naturalnews.com/2020-02-03-the-coronavirus-was-engineered-by-scientists-in-a-lab.html
00
A commenter on an earlier thread here said that residents of China may have been given injections against an earlier virus that unintentionally made them more susceptible to coronavirus. If so, transmission rates and severity outside China may be much lower than inside. In a week or two that should be much more or less plausible.
But will the powers that be in China admit such a thing? If they did, they’d probably scapegoat whoever promoted those injections.
31
My guess is, China’s benevolent leaders think they have too many people to feed, house, and control. After all, with a population of over 1.4 billion, a billion fewer people would reduce their problems considerably.
In a collective, the individual is irrelevant. Only the collective matters. The individual can be used, abused, and discarded at the whim of the collective without any consideration or concern at all. So what is the problem? Morality? you jest! Morality is decided by the benevolent leaders of the collective. If they decide to eliminate a billion people, the only problem they have is how to do it and still get away with it. Perhaps they have found THEIR “final solution”.
73
Yes that’s an honest appraisal of the Chinese culture. However, much the same can be said about the extreme left leaning crowd we have resident here, in particular the Greens. Yet they keep surviving as a political force sometimes having a significant influence on the government at all levels.
101
IMHO only the actions of evil can explain that….
32
Yeah I agree. It will take awhile for the air to clear. But thats the pattern. Since you don’t hide a conspiracy through denial. You only hide a conspiracy by filling the air with smoke.
62
People say that “Where there is smoke there is fire.” But Bobby Kennedy said that “Where there is smoke there is someone operating a smoke machine.” Just the amount of smoke here tells us that this is not organic, normal, and according to Hoyles. And its not Chinese people that are in charge of the smoke machine. So don’t get hooked too much in the Chinese wrong-doing theory.
22
The cruise ship situation is terrible for those trapped on board, but there may be a silver lining to that cloud.
Cruise ships are notorious for outbreaks of illness. But rarely cold and flu. It’s almost always gastro. The spread of “NCP” on Diamond Princess seems to have followed a similar pattern.
This seems to indicate that the mode of asymptomatic transmission is through fecal contamination. This would mean life of the virus outside the body on surfaces would be higher than from droplets from sneezing or coughing.
If this is so, then we would have a handle on how to test asymptomatic persons quickly and how to minimize transmission.
30
Your suggestion re fecal transmission could explain a lot.Having managed group tours of Chinese from the Wuhan province and having been there one needs to be aware of differences in hygiene compared to western counties.Toilet facilities are crude squatters with very little hand washing facilities or practices.Most toilets are littered and foul.After tour groups to Aus we get complaints that extra cleaners have to be deployed to clean up the mess. Attached is an article whilst quite amusing that indicates that even the Chinese are attempting to clean up the situation or maybe just pretend to do so. Note that the photo depicted is not the norm and possibly the only clean toilet in Wuhan.https://medium.com/shanghaiist/district-in-wuhan-is-looking-for-university-grads-to-manage-its-public-toilets-f7872ab2785e
50
mem – I haven’t been to China (Shanghai) since 2004. Apart from the revolting toilets and lack of soap and paper, I noticed the Chinese habit of communal eating where the same chop-sticks used to eat with are used to grab more food from a central bowl. Virus transmission by saliva would be a big problem. Public nose picking was common too.
Boy was I glad to get back to Perth!
70
The focus on statistics and microbiology of the situation seems to overlook the issue highlighted in posts above.
Personal hygiene. It’s not the same as in New York or Australia. This is Asia.
An experience,
In one of the rare public toilets available on the edge of a river in rural Asia the experience was interesting.
A concrete floor with four waste holes for the men and a tap to wash.
The main thing was that this “tourist facility” sent the waste into the river from which locals drew their food.
When this level of understanding of hygiene is present in large cities the problem intensifies and, as far as I can see, is the basic problem.
Statistical evaluation of spread and death rates for diseases are going to depend on these basic facts and so western figures are going to be different to those of most of Asia.
Admittedly there are many large modern cities in Asia but the basic concepts of hygiene intrude from the level of food supply and treatment and general awareness of hygiene is limited.
I think education is more important than vaccines, at least in the long term.
KK
80
In “An Area of Darkness”, published in 1964, V.S. Naipaul detailing experience of a pilgrimage he’d joined in Kashmir wrote “I thought the yatris had no idea of sanitation; they polluted every river we came to; I wished they would follow Gandhi’s advice about the need for a little spade.”
20
🙂
10
A complementary observation from earlier, the cycle of life.
Comment on video discussion.
“The most important thing to come out of that was the handwashing comment.
The Chinese government is faced with the problem of educating people in cities and especially rural areas about hygiene.
I have little doubt that in much of rural China the people will be living in harmony with nature.
In practical terms what that means is that a passing western tourist might see the family toilet perched above the adjacent small pond and ducks swimming around on the surface awaiting their turn on the dinner table.
Below the surface a thriving fish population feeds on the “contributions” of the generous humans and water fowl.
Naturally, the human survivors of this arrangement have an incredible resistance to invisible microscopic life forms but when those life forms start to travel, many other unprepared humans will be in deep doo doo, which is where the problem started.
The Chinese government needs to start at the ground level and reorganize society so that there’s an awareness of basic hygiene everywhere in the country.
Until this is addressed facemasks, vaccinations, isolation etc will only be a temporary solution.
But isn’t that what politics is about; Temporary Solutions?”
KK
50
The situation in China is deteriorating : Today there arrived videos from Wuhan where bodybags with almost certainly deaths in it are being bulldozed into massgraves . The death-rate almost certainly exceeds the 2,1% as stated by chinese authorities . For further and the latest information you may choose to look into the site of an american health ranger brighteon.com . The guy is straightforward and honest and may surprise you .
20
frederik wisse
My wife just interpreted the words on the brighteon.com clips. They talk to the building of a hospital and how they worked so hard to finish. Whoever put up these clips is misleading us.
Fake news!
00
Treeman,
I’d be interested to see an example of your wife’s interpretation, compared to what was put forward on the site, based on those clips, if possible.
00
Another origin theory:
“The very researchers conducting studies on SARS vaccines have cautioned repeatedly against human trials;…
The disease progression in of 2019-nCoV is consistent with those seen in animals and humans vaccinated against SARS and then challenged with re-infection. Thus, the hypothesis that 2019-nCoV is an experimental vaccine type must be seriously considered…
If the Chinese government has been conducting human trials against SARS. MERS, or other coronviruses using recombined viruses, they may have made their citizens far more susceptible to acute respiratory distress syndrome upon infection with 2019-nCoV coronavirus.”
https://jameslyonsweiler.com/2020/01/30/on-the-origins-of-the-2019-ncov-virus-wuhan-china/
40
Scientist Who Discovered Ebola: Britain Faces ‘Major’ Coronavirus Outbreak
Professor Piot said that he believes the virus may not reach its apex until March and that the development of a vaccine before then is “unlikely”.
The professor said that a major concern for this virus is the number of people who remain symptomless despite carrying the coronavirus, saying that this new virus is more akin to swine flu and H1N1 in its ability to be transmitted than SARS.
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/02/09/britain-facing-major-outbreak-of-coronavirus/
10
ABC are saying the virus isn’t spread by air which is at odds with what the Chinese are saying .
10
Un ABC is trying hard to calm everything on this disease !
So facts get ignored.
So as not to underline the party line !
Problem is we all pay for this fake narrative !
Not our ABC !
30
‘Their’ ABC supports China because it is an enemy of their enemy.
70
I couldn’t find a comment that it isn’t spread by air. Where was that?
this was posted not long after your comment Robert
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-01/everything-you-need-to-know-about-coronavirus/11918302
again transmission by coughing and sneezing though specifically within water but does not say not air.
10
ABC newsbreakfast , was a reporter in Darwin trying to put a good spin on the fact the mining camp was close to a local school .
20
so travel by air over some 100’s of metres. That would be unusual for a virus.
I think there is no evidence for that but then none that it couldn’t be so. And of course you’ve discounted the parsimonious explanation that the reporter is just reporting and is not trying to spin anything
By the way, you are suggesting that the ABC are consciously spinning it to favour the conservative governments decision to use the camp. Wouldn’t you think that the lefty ABC would be spinning to undermine the govt?
10
No mention of distance in the report I seen just that there was a school adjoining the site and the virus couldn’t be spread by air .
30
In this report from the ABC it says the virus is not easily spread between humans .
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-08/coronavirus-northern-territory-howard-springs-site/11944846
30
I’ve been keeping track of this for years, Ultra high SiO2 emissions in these ranges from those two cities is actually normal, they’re two of the filthiest places on Earth, on a good day. So it can not be presumed such emissions are due to cremation. These cities are a total disgrace from an air quality perspective, and if the air is that bad the water will be too.
The fact we have greenies and the scourge of the UN constantly pointing fingers at the West, instead of firmly at China, proves what diabolical hypocrites and phonies they are and that the CHICOMS can do no wrong. They get a free-pass to destroy the environment, any way they want, as fast as they want. They have next to no problem with it and if they ever do point it out it’s a token finger wag. The greens and UN don’t care one bit about the environment, all a ruse to swindle out more money and control.
91
Yes, these places are normally highly polluted, but industry in Wuhan and Chongquig are all but shut down. These strange SO2 spikes seem to be occurring at night and only in the last few days.
For cremation, the largest amount of SO2 comes from the burner oil, not the body. It may be that flue filtration is being bypassed at night to speed things up.
Another possibility is the the unfiltered incineration of medical waste such as suits and gloves. This may be done at night so people don’t see the smoke and think the worst.
100
Normally the levels build-up during the day and into the evening then disperses downwind by mid-morning.
When there’s little wind or an inversion the plume tends to hang around and becomes much denser. It takes a change in air mass to get rid of it.
30
I’m not sure those quartz emissions are what is being measured. OTOH – do some chinese funerary practices include letting off fireworks? That could account for some elevated SO2 emissions, as could the burning of sulphur to fumigate suspected contaminated places.
Both, I think, far more likely explanations than burning bodies giving off SO2.
But sometimes, when you want conspiracies, simple, normal explanations just won’t satisfy the thirst will they?
31
oh, Hardie har har! 😉
10
Fireworks?
All services are banned. The crematoriums are working 24/7. Relatives are lucky to receive a death certificate (if the doors to their building haven’t been welded shut).
00
As I noted previously, the real death rate is the number of deaths divided by (number of deaths + recovered patients). At the end of the pandemic the denominator will equal the total number of infections. Not only is the practice of dividing deaths by total infections inaccurate because of the lead time between infection and death, but it gives a immunology naive population a false sense of security leading to carelessness. Probably the worst thing that can happen, is happening, is the surge in conspiracy theories and fabricated information.
From the Chinese reported figures the calculated death rate is 23% which may reflect the fact that hospitals are overloaded as are the lines of beds in temporary facilities like stadiums where there are probably shortages of essentials like oxygen and bedpans. There may be a surge in recoveries but the admitted figures go a long way to explaining the actions being taken to enforce quarantine. The cruise ship underlines the effectiveness of quarantine in preventing spread. A term of cabin fever and boredom is a small price to pay for survival.
Outside China the death rate of 2 compared to recoveries (35) gives a current death rate of 5.4%. Far better than China because intensive care facilities are available but still a daunting figure.
52
In the Japanese case about 70% of evac people who had it did not feel sick enough to go to a hospital, so don’t get diagnosed (unless formally tested anyway, as they were in this case).
So your rather high 23% would be of the remaining 30% who did go to a hospital for a positive swab test.
23
Japan did not quarantine evacuees because of legal difficulties. However all evacuees on the flight from Wuhan were tested. 12 were hospitalised because they had symptoms such as fever and coughing but two refused to be taken to the hospital for checks and were escorted home. The remaining 201 passengers tested negative. So only 2 did not get tested but went on their way rejoicing to spread the infection. I assume that these two were included in the total of infections for Japan.
31
Brian, that’s true. The known deaths need to be compared to the total died or recovered, not to the known infected. There are no doubt an unknown number of individuals infected who did not go to hospital but most of these are probably not in the 37k count either. I posted in a previous thread that the death rate known was in the 40% range so at least it has declined from that even on the Chinese figures and can be expected to be less in countries with more advanced medical care, at least we hope so. Even if the very sketchy 5% rate or anything like it persists then this is a highly virulent disease. If that degree of virulence is maintained in the wild along with what seems to be a three week delay for onset of serious symptoms then this is going to be truly nasty.
41
Here’s the latest (2/8) WUWT thread on the topic:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/02/08/the-corona-epidemic-a-dangerous-and-a-less-danerous-form/
10
If its not a virus, its definitely a purge of some sort underway.
There are many vids of people being dragged forcibly into vehicles against their will.
These people are screaming for their lives.
53
I wouldnt call the flu comparison a “gambit”. The number are the numbers, we will see how they go.
10
while we were out—
Pesticides,” he said that day last October. Hidden beneath a few sacks of grain were 12,000 pounds of the pesticide emamectin benzoate. With a street value of more than $2 million the illegal pesticides, produced in China and then smuggled across the Paraguay border, were twice as powerful as what’s allowed in Brazil….Adulterated in labs and garages, hustled like narcotics, co-opted by gangs and mafias, counterfeit and contraband pesticides are flooding developed and developing countries alike, with environmental and social consequences that are “far from trivial,” the U.N. Environment Program reported last year. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/in-agricultural-giant-brazil-a-new-and-growing-hazard-the-illegal-trade-in-pesticides/2020/02/09/2c0b2f2e-30b3-11ea-a053-dc6d944ba776_story.html
30
And we think Australia is a mess.
00
A group to keep an eye on are those infected by a British man who caught the bug in Singapore 20th-23rd Jan. Flew to France and shared a chalet with friends and their kids 24th-28th. He then headed back to the UK. The people in the chalet then split up. The man gets tested on the 6th Feb and tests positive. The family of 5 in France all test positive and 1 of the 4 who returned to Majorca also tests positive. An additional man in the UK, with contact with the first man tests positive in the UK. He’s been described as a ‘super spreader’ but that’s based on the assumption that other victims are significantly different. How many other might he have infected on flights, trips to the pub, etc. What will the outcome be for those people?
It is important to connect the number of deaths with the number who were infected when the dead caught the disease. fatality rate is usually calculated after the fact but at the moment they’re trying to compare the number of cases at least 8 days after the doomed people were identified as infected. If numbers were higher it wouldn’t make as much of a difference.
20
O/T but hydrogen is worth pursuing
…
Im not excited by EVs that run on H2, rather if it can stored on board, an ICE can run on it…
https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-31/hydrogen-strategy-fossil-fuels-versus-renewables/11653336
“Dr Soderbaum said ultimately the market would decide whether Australia’s hydrogen sector got off the ground.
“”At the end of the day, the actual demand for Australian hydrogen will be determined by factors such as the economic competitiveness of our supplies versus those of competing suppliers of hydrogen around the world and the extent to which it can be classified as low or zero-emissions hydrogen,” he said.
“The national hydrogen strategy is currently being drafted by a taskforce led by Dr Finkel.
“State and federal energy ministers are expected to discuss the strategy in November.
10
There’s a trucking company in the US who is building them using hydrogen for fuel. It should be investigated but I think hydrogen fuel cells in a car can be very dangerous. Perhaps that can be mitigated in some way. I too am not that excited about EV’s at least not until we have nuclear power to supply the electricity necessary at all times. Places like UK and Europe would not be such a problem since they already have nuclear and they can build more if necessary. We are stuck in the fossil power generation age for better and for worse. I really think we should grow up and start using nuclear like virtually every other nation/region of significance but I can’t see it happening any time soon.
20
Article on how busy the crematoriums are and questions about deceased cause of death .
https://www.theepochtimes.com/exclusive-funeral-homes-in-coronavirus-ground-zero-cremating-dozens-of-bodies-a-day_3228938.html?fbclid=IwAR0ZMngpODYUtuITG_WEQbYubS4LyNL6GvGu6rcdqoMliSHpnLDQihW5oPQ
10
The only way to successfully store hydrogen is to bind 4 atoms of it with a high valence carrier atom into a simple hydride, say Carbon or Nitrogen. Since Nitrogen Carrier NH3 (Ammonia) tends to be rather toxic maybe CH4 is the best option…. oops isn’t that Methane?
10
Jo I have to say, the disparity between what is happening on the ground and what some think is happening widens by the day. Some of this post misses the mark.
You suggest “It means cancelling large events in at risk populations for the moment” and reference the CDC recommendations which are specific for healthcare professionals.
My wife has been interpreting some of the words on the twitter clips and has laughed at how wrong are the western interpretations. The Hal Turner stuff is complete nonsense.
Further, anything from Epoch Times is fraught because of its self proclaimed Anti Communist Bias
robert rosicka, the Epoch Times article you linked to makes no mention of the normal number of cremations or the proportion of non NCP related deaths so is utterly worthless as a gauge or leverage for the claim that a sharp Increase in cremations indicates Chinese authorities are underreporting deaths.
Further the article published on Feb 7 refers to Feb 4 revelations which frankly don’t surprise when daily deaths are sitting just below 100 and have been showing exponential growth until Feb 4 but are now trending down. As I noted last week, the NCP related deaths were not seen as anything different until the Novel Coronavirus was identified.
I have many Chinese friends and family and the oft used response to criticism about the CCP is OK “tell me how else to do it in a country with 1.3 billion people”
Anything published on Twitter that I’ve shown my wife has been met with laughter. Her relatives work in Health Care sector and I could challenge many of the posts above but to what end? It would just make me angry to see the responses. Far better to retire to other work for a while.
24
Please give up with the snowstorming.
For a Chinese city of 11,000,000 we could expect 250 natural deaths a day. From ground reports and satellite data, Wuhan has been cremating between 1000 and 1500 corpses a day for the last 17 days.
In addition they are burning something else after dark in the last few days, setting off the satellite wildfire detection.
It’s not “Normal”, it’s not “Just the flu”. You don’t start spraying the streets with bleach at 8.00 pm every night for “Just the flu”.
You should give up. The “Yay for China” routine is dead in the water. They demanded an end to international travel restrictions while locking down 80 cities and running crematoriums 24/7.
They just cremated their own reputation. The Wuhan virology lab kept on doing GOF studies on bat coronavirus after the world said no. China cannot ask those nations that respected the moritorium to share China’s virus.
41
Who can argue with Konrad who clearly knows everything about all aspects of China so here are a few questions.
Can you name the 80 cities locked down?
When did China demand an end to international travel restrictions?
What proof can you provide that the Wuhan virology lab kept on doing GOF studies on bat coronavirus after the world said no?
Go on Konrad make my day and cough up some proof
11
I never claimed to know everything about China, I just know the most important thing: never trust any “official” information. This is why I look to satellite data an photo/video analysis.
China protested the US and Australia travel restrictions. That they they did so while the medical system in Wuhan was being overwhelmed is a matter of permanent record.
So to in the Wuhan lab’s prior involvement with GOF studies on coronavirus from bats. In an amazing coincidence, the lab publishes a study after the outbreak starts on the discovery of a new bat virus with 96% of sequence identical to 2019 nCoV. Compare the differences to elements altered in prior published GOF studies. The chances of this occurring via a second animal host in the same city as the lab?
No, I cannot name the cities in lock down, let alone pronounce them. But one of them is so far north that the fire dept just has to block entrances with hay bails and spray them with water to create a solid wall of ice.
00
Hi Treeman,
An interesting perspective and there’s only one thing that I have difficulty with.
The concept of managing 1.3 billion people is hard for us to grasp.
Just as an indicator, if we removed Australia’s population, 25,000,000, from that total there would still be 1,275,000,000 persons to manage in this epidemic.
Over the last 50 years I’ve watched one of China’s neighbours go from 43 million to about 100 million.
I throw these numbers in to reinforce the point that you have made.
The thing that leaves me hanging is the modern usage of the word fraught.
Whenever it’s used like that I’m left asking myself; “fraught with what?”
🙂
KK
10
Peter when was the last time the flu caused the shut down of a city with 11 million people? To save face……i dont think so.
30
And
“Beijing Under Partial Lock Down As Virus Death Toll Tops 900; More Than 40,000 Infected”
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/were-totally-dark-japan-not-doing-enough-contain-outbreak-diamond-princess-passengers
Via Tip of the Spear
10
It’s not often I read the Guardian
But on whim I just did so
What are we to make of this then ?
The Guardian reporting fair & square on the novel corona virus disease in China !
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/10/coronavirus-journalist-missing-in-wuhan-as-anger-towards-chinese-authorities-grows
20
I have noted that cooperation with other nations is now in hand with assistance being supplied.
Also, reports from Wuhan citizens who are relatively safely installed in their homes awaiting the lifting of quarantine restrictions.
Apparently they have made limited excursions for food from shops that do still have supplies.
The scenes on the streets may not be typical or imply such a bad scenario as first appears.
One can only hope.
Meanwhile, in other countries we are past the two week point from initial infections where rapid spread would have been observed by now if a true pandemic were on the way.
Early days but more reason for hope than a week ago.
40
Yes, they have finally accepted US assistance. A 50,000 person trial of a new US anti viral drug should start soon.
(Note that 50,000 the US is preparing for is far higher than the “official” numbers of infected China has admitted to).
30
4 more in UK over the weekend so not out of the wood yet.
Interestingly UK has authorised forcible quarantine where necessary which puts similar action in Wuhan into perspective.
40
“Scientist Who Discovered Ebola: Britain Faces ‘Major’ Coronavirus Outbreak”
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/02/09/britain-facing-major-outbreak-of-coronavirus/
00
Don’t know if anyone else has seen this one. It would explain some of the hysteria about climate change, people read the headlines, believe them without reading further, and repost them
https://au.yahoo.com/news/truth-behind-extreme-viral-image-of-sydney-storm-042246522.html
10
What’s the point of government: is it looking after the people or those in power?
.” Nationwide every household is paying an EXTRA $800 p.a. for the new electricity so that “someone” can skim.”
Making electricity for modern urban populations was a done deal in the 1950s.
Why the sudden jump in pricing?
Someone is skimming!!
KK
40
Too bad this hasn’t gotten a wider coverage.
The Wuhan Virus Is Not a Lab-Made Bioweapon
It gets better.
02
The virus is unlikely to be a bioweapon.
But that it originated in the Wuhan lab is a virtual certainty.
The lab published a hurried paper after 2019 nCoV was on the loose, admitting they had been working with a bat virus with 96% commonality. They had previously been working on GOF studies using the ACE2 pathway to humans. The sequence differences between the viruses include this area.
It is possible that mutation in a second animal carrier could cause this, but it is unlikely. It would be incredibly unlikely that this would just happen to occur in the same city as the lab.
This is not the release of a bioweapon, but it is almost certainly a biosecurity industrial accident.
However, unless knowing the origin helps develop a rapid test or vaccine, it is largely irrelevant at this point.
10
This is a true mystery disease. While it is infectious, it only seems to be lethal to Chinese nationals and the occasional Chinese dissident. If one excludes that group, out of the dozens or hundreds or thousands of confirmed cases in the West while still waiting for the thousands of deaths people talk about. And there are reports that one can infect someone up to three weeks after recovery or three months, or three years, or three decades or three centuries or . . .
There are even reports that the Chinese have bio-engineered a virus that only attacks Asians. Rumors are that the Left in the West are desperately sending money to China to see if they have a mutation that attacks conservatives (just kidding).
10
I wondered about the difference between aerosol and droplet transmission. Found a site which claims to be qquoting the CDC:
What’s the difference between infections spread through the air or by droplets? Airborne spread happens when germs float through the air after a person talks, coughs, or sneezes. Those germs can be inhaled even after the original person is no longer nearby. Direct contact with the infectious person is NOT needed for someone else to get sick. Germs like chicken pox and TB are spread through the air.
Droplet spread happens when fluids in large droplets from a sick person splash the eyes, nose, or mouth of another person or through a cut in the skin. Droplets may cause short-term environmental contamination, like a soiled bathroom surface or handrails, from which another person can pick up the infectious material.
10
However this goes, the world is going to be very different in 6 months.
All we can do is hold on tight.
10
Things are not going well on the Diamond Princess… they’ve gone up to 136 cases now.
10
Just a reflection…
While I appreciate the efforts of people on sites like this, I’m not satisfied that I can know much about the present virus, its causes or the politics around it. My strongest hunch is that Chinese state, deliberately or opportunistically, is using the crisis to control and distract an enormous population when other methods have proven inadequate.
But that’s just a hunch. No need to tell me of the dire costs and consequences to the state itself. I’m aware of all that, but know enough history to know it’s easier to control a straitened population than one full of middle-class aspirationals. When power is all you want, a loss of general prosperity can be an advantage. The whole deal of sending production east while accelerating consumption in the west (debt and currency manipulation essential at both ends) was based on using communism to serve capitalism. The problem was always going to be an explosion of middle-class aspiration on the eastern end. Which is the point we’ve reached.
But I could be completely wrong about all that. There’s one thing I’m more certain about…
As mentioned before, I was less emotionally affected by fire in Australia than the average Hollywood celeb on a Canadian ski field, even though I copped a home-threatening blaze. All through those months I was prepared to monitor daily, but I kept the media turned OFF. The constant repetition of alarm and complaint couldn’t reach me because they were turned OFF. And I really did notice a difference in mood when I was in contact with friends and neighbours who were double-saturating themselves in media, as if not lurching for the latest update or “vision” was somehow irresponsible or even a betrayal.
There is no journalism. There is nothing to miss. The media are now so centralised and corporatised that they are not worth five minutes out of our day. Yet so many people are giving them five hours, ten hours.
Before the next real or confected crisis, before we are treated to alien arrival or rogue-state-with-superbug or trans-for-president, we need to gauge the cost of pressing that ON button. How much is information how much is manipulation? Remember, they still love the box best, because it’s all one way. They like radio because it’s mostly one-way.
So have they won again? Are we lunging for that ON button because coronavirus is just too big? Not knocking those here who have expertise or something solid to add. But shouldn’t we be careful to limit it to that? If we are once again saturating in yet another “issue”, at what point will we ever turn the manipulators off? They will always be able to find or stage something. The corporations who own media own all sorts of other things and are owned by all sorts of other things. (I read recently that the universal spider, Serco, owns the media company which owns Zero Hedge. I’m not game to check if it’s true.)
So…
At what point?
10
“This Is How China Is Rigging The Number Of Coronavirus Infections ”
https://www.zerohedge.com/health/how-china-rigging-number-coronavirus-infections
Via Tip of the Spear
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The BBC seems to be trying to be actually accurate & balanced in this major article & discussion of what the Corona Virus means for China’s future and the CCP government :
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51449675
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